My post on Evolution

This will probably be my one and only post on Evolution.  Really I am doing this for myself, so that I have a post on Evolution so that I can have something on my blog I can reference to quickly.  So that way I can have a source for how Scientist respond to creationist criticisms of evolution.

I found on the web a large collection of YouTube Videos that is widely considered the most extensive collection of videos on Evolution and natural science.  It is titled “The Best Videos on Evolution, Creationism, Atheism and More“.  It is a collection of over 1,000 videos with an excellent foundation for understanding evolution and countering creationist claims.  Scientist Peter Singer also has some great YouTube videos on how ethics and evolution correlate.

 

The best and most complete video on Evolution  (I’ve seen) is Jerry Coyne‘s Lecture on Why Evolution is True?  I would actually put this on my list as one top videos for anyone to watch.

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About M. Rodriguez

When I first received Christ salvation, I made it a priority to read the whole bible and I did. But it was the Bible that made me question my faith. For I found it flawed and lacking. Due to this I launched a personal inquiry/investigation into my faith, and ultimately realized that the Christian God of the Bible was indeed man-made. Now I Blog about those findings and life after Christ.
This entry was posted in atheist vs christian, evolution vs. creation, jerry coyne, religion vs. science and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

39 Responses to My post on Evolution

  1. Religiously and academically, I don’t think I am going to eject evolution of animal or even human or any species. Even, the idea is different in certain sense especially human originated from apes. it just like believing a story of “Hanuman” or “Sun Wukong” is true.

    The question is “Why Creationist and Evolutionist are fighting?”. The more I look, it just a fight between Christian and Atheist to determine who is right or wrong.

    • Arkenaten says:

      Many Christians accept evolution, so to state it is just a fight to determine who is right or wrong is misleading.

      Where religious people err is to state that it is a fact that a god was involved at some point.
      This is erroneous.

      • “Where religious people err is to state that it is a fact that a god was involved at some point.” So what are the point you want to highlight? This is main principles of Christian, “Believing God”.

        If many Cristian accept Evolution. So, what the real problem? It always come back to square one, it not the problem of evolution or creation. It just a defend of both principle. So, Evolution is just an excuse or tools.

        Regards, “The Outsider”.

    • Arkenaten says:

      No, it is not all about ”point scoring” but rather the rubbish that Christianity and other religions push as fact.
      Where religions utterly fails is when confronted by evidence, specifically archaeology, which has already rubbished almost every claim concerning the Abrahamic religions, thus making Judaism, Christianity and Islam redundant. The so-called founders, Abraham, Moses etc have already been shown to be nothing more than flights of fancy: the exodus never happened, and there is even doubt among serious scholars of the historicity of jesus and some are now questioning the existence of Mohammed.
      In short, it is pretty much a grand fraud, and when critical thinking takes precedent over religious inculcation religion will die a natural and inevitable death. Something people will eventually have to come to terms with.
      That is a day which cannot come soon enough.

  2. Archeology is about assumption of history, it also nothing without a good support of evidence, lost language or words.

    I believe this post about Evolution and I don’t intend to stray away to other subject.

    Allah has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of them are those that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. (translation Quran 24:45)

    So, in view Creation and Evolution. I can just say “God created a living thing and living thing evolve through their own nature depend environment, weather, climate, temperature, etc”.
    or
    I also can assume that “God created a living thing with simple cell in water environment, with simple cell evolve to complex cell, and evolve to more complex organism as reptiles and fish and later mammals. Some creature are created to evolve to be plants, trees, etc”.

    This is 14 years old secondary school’s science syllabus.

    • M. Rodriguez says:

      coyne actually has another video talking about if religion and science are compatable, and actually slightly over laps with this topic. I really enjoyed the video, so I created a three part post on the topic of religion and science.

      So let me chime.

      I would say its about more than being right or wrong. It’s about idea of living in a religious world where faith reigns supreme and religious books serves as evidence for science. VS. living in a world with methodical scientific view, where all presuppostions must be proved with data, evidence, and testing. And then re-examined with peer reviews. That somthing is true based on evidence not religious faith.

      It’s more than right or wrong. It’s how the world operates. For Hifzan you said Allah has created every [living] creature from water. …..Allah creates what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. (translation Quran 24:45)

      If this is so can you prove it. Can you provide evidence for this statement? And has this evidence been reviewed with similar conclusion by others with a high level of scientific expertise? For this is where the difference is…In how things are evaluated and concluded. For in a scientific world. Things are concluded after a careful process of testing, and evaluation. But in a religious world, things are concluded on faith…tell me which method of conclusion would you prefer to have?

    • Arkenaten says:

      ”Archeology is about assumption of history, it also nothing without a good support of evidence, lost language or words.”

      If written history says Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt under God’s direction and the israelites eventually were led to the promised then there should be evidence of this event, especially when one considers the numbers of human beings involved – not least those slaughtered as commanded by your God.
      There is no evidence whatsoever to support any such claim, in fact the evidence clearly shows this event and many others recounted in the religious texts simply did not happen.
      This is CRUCIAL to the story of evolution as the same religious texts talk about a god as a creator.
      So if tales of the Exodus etc and the central characters have been proved to be nothing but fiction then it clearly demonstrates the fallacious nature of the bible and the Qu’ran, and these books are nothing but a collection of stories.
      Worse, it suggest subterfuge on the part of their compilots. In other words, they are
      little more than lies.
      Creation, like Mohammed,Moses and Jesus are products of fertile imaginations. Nothing more.

      • May be you should forward the question to Unklee.
        I just finish reading Exodus through wiki, so it not proper for me to answer on behalf of Christian and I don’t really understand what the relation that I can relate between Evolution and Exodus.

  3. You know why I give you 2 type of interpretation of verse? It because I don’t know. Even I can come out with more 20 type of different (hypothesis) interpretation based on the verse itself. May be all of my hypothesis are all wrong, which conducted through my limited knowledge.

    Evolution’s science are conducted carefully through process of testing and evaluation? Yes, in certain portion of sub-topic example of horse species evolution, DNA enhancement, which can be easily observe in modern scientific equipment.
    When it goes details to origin of species/living thing or origin of cosmology which dated billions of years ago. I can ask you a same question “where do you get such conclusion”? Can scientist prove it too? Obviously, No.

    “but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge?” (translation Quran 3:66)
    When come to an issue of unknown, why I should argue or proving that something I do not know. and I believe atheist also do not have a proper knowledge regarding this issue (origin of evolution).

    “But in a religious world, things are concluded on faith…tell me which method of conclusion would you prefer to have?”
    Conclusion is depend on knowledge that you acquire. The more you gain, the easier and more accurate the result you have. There are many religious method that I can suggest in knowledge seeking.
    1) Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who taught by the pen (96:3-4)

    • Another method is :
      2) O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful. (translation 49:6)
      Any information are not suppose to be accepted without investigation. It was similar to scope of evolution.
      There are many other method, but I believe it should be enough because I do not intent to preach you.

      • M. Rodriguez says:

        and that is the difference between science and faith. u mentioned you gave two answer based on what your understanding of the quran. However when you use the word hypothesis, to describe what you believe might be the best interpretation of the verse, you miss the scientific meaning of hypothesis. A hypothesis is idea. theory, or belief that you can test or measure to valid if it is true of not true.

        I bring this up. because there is nothing wrong with saying. I don’t know the full answer, here is what I believe or what might be the answer. But when you use the word hypothesis, u miss the second step, which is the scientific method of finding evidence and testability to find out which is true. And this is to find out what separates when a religious minded person says I believe….vs. when a scientific minded person says I believe.

      • I don’t see any different between religious methods that I provided (1) Read an write; or (2) receive the info and investigate the info; were clash with modern science. This is the main fundamental of modern education and fundamental method of finding evidence. You must start with something easy, example : (1) Read the book. (2) Investigate and analyze. There are many other method such asking people who know, if you want to read it, from Malaysian blogger which have similar way with my thinking and the way I being raise.
        http://raihani-s.blogspot.com/2010/11/thinking-styles-in-quran.html

        In idea of Islam, God have only provide a portion of knowledge to survive in this world. The rest is up to you to seek, find and explore by your own. So, exploration of knowledge is a must in Islam. It was so obvious that God not proving the direct answer. It up to us to find it. Many example of verse are based on questionnaire.

        Have they not looked at the camel—how it was created? and at the sky—how it was raised up? and at the mountains—how they were embedded? and at the earth—how it is spread out? So remind them! You are only a reminder. (translation Quran 17-21)

        In this idea and to answers you question:
        Walahu alam (meaning: God know better) so if you want to know more, keep learning.

  4. Arkenaten says:

    ”May be you should forward the question to Unklee.
    I just finish reading Exodus through wiki, so it not proper for me to answer on behalf of Christian and I don’t really understand what the relation that I can relate between Evolution and Exodus.”

    I have explained the relation between the Exodus and Evolution, but I shall try to be a little more succinct.

    Fundamentalists consider the Bible and the Qu’ran inerrant.
    Liberal religious people consider much of the Creation story analogous and are prepared to accept evolution based on EVIDENCE, but appear to be unwilling to accept the fact that much of the Old Testament and especially stories such as the Exodus and characters like Moses and Abraham are fictitious.
    The refutation of these characters and events are also based on concrete EVIDENCE.
    They did not happen, the characters did not exist.
    The more the Bible and the Qu’ran are exposed to critical analysis, backed by science and in this case archaeology it becomes ever more apparent that these books are nothing more than fallacious collections of myths and stories.
    And I reiterate, based on the evidence , there is also little reason to believe that Jesus or Mohammed were actual historical figures, let alone divine or divinely inspired.

    I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding?

    • Arkenaten,

      I also believe than Quran (in Arabic) is totally free from error, but the interpretation, translation, comments are not free from error which still can be challenge. Islam do not have cleric, monks that have total authority for the interpretation of verse.

      The story of Moses and Abraham happen more than 2000 years ago. Civilization being replaced, houses and monument collapsed, books lost or burned. It more logic, it can not be found.

      From your story, I think Christianity teach to seek for relics rather than lesson learn from the stories.

      • Arkenaten says:

        Your answer clearly demonstrates your lack of understanding regarding the compilation of the Qu’ran and also archaeology.
        As you would not accept evidence even if provided there is little point in discussing such things with a person who believes Mohammed rode on a winged horse to heaven.
        Silly Person.

      • Yawn,yawn…
        As I was lack of understanding and also a silly person. You as brilliant human and expert of compilation of Quran and Archeology, can you explain about that academically?
        Enlighten me. 🙂

      • Arkenaten says:

        I am perfectly willing to. But first, I would be obliged if you could explain to me the dynamics of how a winged horse flew to heaven with a man, ”Mohammed,” on its back?
        If you can demonstrate this to the satisfaction of both of us then a paragraph or two on biblical archaeology around Palestine and the near Middle East and the compilation of your holy book including the destruction of the original texts, will be child’s play for you to grasp.
        Whenever you are ready?

      • Why you need my explanation? You are self claimed expert, you tell me.

  5. Arkenaten says:

    @ Hifzan.
    Oh, I know it is all BS, I was just curious that, as an educated man,what sort of wheedling’, whining excuse you would come up with, that’s all. If you don’t feel like offering an answer, that’s fine by me. Your silence is as eloquent as a page of disingenuous diatribe, and complies perfectly to the evidence that the religion you believe is merely lies, whose supposed holy book is largely plagiarised and your prophet is a literary construct, and not a very nice one at that.

    • Your question are not difficult to answer but there are an advise from Imam Shafi “I have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that I won the debate, and I have never debated with an ignorant person, except that I lost.”

      So here, I, Hifzan Shafiee I declare my defeat happily.

      • Arkenaten says:

        LOL! You lost before you even opened any dialogue; you lost when you submitted to the will of an imaginary deity on the say so of a fictitious man. That you genuflect to the words written in a silly book, and that you are unable to recognise this is funnier than you will ever realise.
        The only sad thing, of course, is that there are those amoral individuals within your religion that will convince children there is a better place after they die then happily strap C4 to their bodies and send them off to be blown to shit.
        You must be so proud of your religion.

      • Ya ya ya. If you want to win, then just take the trophy.
        I kill a lot of people, I teach people to operate C4, I design and manufacture AK47, I produce porn movie, I sent a battalion of army to kill Whites. Any others thing that I missed.
        Do you have “White Supremacy Syndrome”?

  6. Arkenaten says:

    I don’t recall saying you were responsible for such atrocities, or even implied you manufactured Kalashnikov rifles. However, now you bring it up…. DO YOU manufacture such a weapon?
    Why would I have a “White Supremacy Syndrome”? I live in Africa. What an odd thing to say. Are you suggesting I am racist or Islamophobic? Are you that insecure you have to stoop to such nonsense. Good heavens. What an odd person you are.

    • ‘Actually I just realize in my country, I have living with Christian (non-White) so long. In South East Asia, the number or Atheist (Chinese or other ethnic) is large but we don’t have sort of this cursing, mocking, belittle of others people.
      Seem it just a problem of Whites … No need to explain, attitude show it.

      For the sake of satisfy your “White Supremacy” attitude. You pick any verse in Quran that you think you win dialog with me. I will write a post about it, and you can critic what ever you want. You want a debate, I give you a debate.

      • Arkenaten says:

        I have no white supremacist attitude, racism is for imbeciles.
        I have an utter disgust and contempt for religion and especially religion that considers sending children to die in the name of Allah a worthy cause.
        I have neither the time nor the inclination to banter semantics with a fool so I will decline your offer to trawl your silly Qu’ran. Though, for the record, I have read it and have a copy on my bookshelf.
        Besides, archaeology has debunked such stories as Moses and the Exodus and most serious Jewish scholars already acknowledge that the Torah is lmostly fiction. This makes the New Testament largely redundant and by extension the Qu’ran even more so. Thus, your prophet Muhammad, if he actually existed, was a fraud and a liar. And if he did not, then those that composed the Qu’ran, plagiarising much of its content from the Torah and NT were liars and fraudsters.
        I see no profit (prophet? lol) to be gained arguing over lies with anyone who believes that a story of travel on a winged horse was an actual occurrence. Even a 5 year old child will explain the dynamics of this to you if you are unable to comprehend why this is an impossibility.
        Well, obviously not a Muslim child as they have probably already been inculcated.
        People like you should be allowed to play in the gene pool….not even in the shallow end.

        But, please, feel free to expound the glorious (sic)details of your so-called virtuous religious text.
        I am sure there are many who visit Marcus’s blog that will smile.

        Silly Person.

      • Actually, in beginning, I already know that you not going to have a proper dialogue or have proper knowledge to debate. So, I reluctant to accept or answer your question which I know it was a correct decision. When, I accept the challenge, you decline. How kind of logic is that.

        My suggestion, next time, don’t ask or give suggestion, it wasting your time and my time replying.

        In Malay proverb which I translated ” If you afraid of tidal, Don’t stay at the beach”. Mean: If you do not ready of to face the consequence, don’t ever do something difficult or you can not do.

  7. Arkenaten says:

    I have already explained that archaeology has PROVED that the Exodus and Moses is fiction.
    If you doubt this statement investigate the work of Israel Finkelstein and Zeév herzog, highly qualified archaeologists. Their findings are accepted by almost every mainstream archaeologists working today.
    The Qu’ran, as with the New Testament, is built upon foundations espoused by Old Testament prophets. and characters such as Moses. To be clear. There never was a meeting atop Mt Sinai between Yahweh and someone called Moses. It did not happen. It is a fiction. Archaeology has already shown this .
    In all likelihood this and other stories were composed in an effort to maintain ethnic and cultural identity during the babylonian captivity and these traditions were continued once the Jews returned to the ‘Promised Land”

    Furthermore, I did say that I would be perfectly willing to educate you on the compilation and history of the Qu’ran if you could first explain the scientific dynamics of the winged horse and Mohammed’s trip to heaven.

    So,until you do this, I reiterate, there is no point in debating you on the merits of the Qur’anic texts as they are fictitious.

    In fact it is such a dreadful work of fiction I wouldn’t even give it the time of day and offer to review it for you.

    • I try to understand you fundamental of understanding in archeology and exodus like this.

      “I dig and investigate all around the the tunnel or what ever to seek for ancient fish fossil. Because I can not found the fossil , I give a conclusion that fish are not exist during dinosaur era.”
      This is the most stupid principle of scientific idea that I have counter.

      For the sake of releasing you from “Supremacy Syndrome”. Scientific dynamics of the winged horse and Mohammed’s trip to heaven?
      I never remember that any of Muslim scholar teach me that I need to understand this event and they also never teach me that it was logic and can be explained.

      So again, to your basic principle:
      “If the event can not be explained, then it can not happened”?

      • Arkenaten says:

        This is why it is futile discussing such a topic with any individual who responds in such an asinine and churlish fashion. You may consider yourself normal but you are not sane.
        Silly Person.

      • Pierce,
        If you think that was “asinine and churlish fashion” than try replying that. Or you expecting me to give an answer as what Christian always do which easily

        Just give you a hint. I am going to attack on principle and fundamental of philosophy. As I know Atheist is worse philosopher ever even in scientific philosopher.

        “If the event can not be explained, then it can not happened?” A simple and direct question also can not be answered. How I going to be serious. My last question to you about “reality of the world” were unable to answer too. I write a post for it, you really wasting my time.

        Actually I know you are weak at answering question. You just know how to question, blame, and complaint, but you can not solve and rectify it. Typical atheist. You think too high about yourself.

  8. Arkenaten says:

    Explain Mohammed’s winged horse, and I will teach the history of the compilation of the Qu’ran. That is the only deal upon the table.
    Otherwise you are just piddling in the wind….

    • I prefer to answer the question as “I don’t know”. And I don’t think you can teach me about history of the compilation of the Qu’ran.
      As I already describe my principle regarding “thing that unexplainable”, I believe it should be sufficient for you. This principle are hold by many Muslim. You don’t want to take that as answer is not my problem at all.

      And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge… (translation 17:36)

      I don’t have knowledge or I don’t have enough knowledge to explain the events. Or we need to have archeology evidence?

      • Arkenaten says:

        LOL…An idiot reply for an idiot scenario.
        Well, don’t fret too much, even supposed intelligent people who follow your silly religion believe Morehamdad rode to heaven on a winged horse.
        And of course, Crispyuns think their prophet walked on water and came back from the dead!

        Normal people realise that such foolish beliefs are only temporary and people will eventually have no need of this nonsense.
        Until then…enjoy yourself.
        Silly person.

      • Still,
        You think that is an idiot statement, but you can not attack. As usual, another mocking and cursing.
        Well done my friend, you are genius atheist.

  9. Arkenaten says:

    :Typical atheist. You think too high about yourself.”
    You bet your Islamic arse think highly of myself.

  10. Pingback: Top Atheist and Skeptic Scholars | The BitterSweet End

  11. Arkenaten says:

    ”Well done my friend, you are genius atheist.”

    Why thank you…nice of you to say so.

  12. Pingback: Religion vs. Science: Are Religion and Science Compatible? | The BitterSweet End

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