The Skeptic Vs. The Miracle….. #Buying a Miracle

A Miracle by definition is the suspension of the laws of nature and physics.  It by so, that when nature or physical law cannot explain something, that is when something is deemed a  miracle.

To the skeptic & atheist they don’t believe in miracles; and the religious believer does.  So as a way to find a common ground and settle unexplained miracles.  Several skeptical organizations have set up awards and investigative inquiries into so-called miracles and pseudoscience.

So for those who believe that God has done a genuine miracle, here is a way for you to prove it to the atheist community and possibly make some money.

The Center for Skeptical Inquiry research many alleged phenomena and miracles.  So if you believe you have a real miracle on your hand, they will put together a panel and publication to research, observe and possibly test it.

However the Tampa Bay Skeptics Society of Tampa, Fl have a standing $1,000 Challenge to whomever can produce information for a real miracle.  And there have been real takers on people wanting to get the award money however so far no one has passed the Challenge.

And lastly for those who want to go for the big prize the James Randi Educational Foundation sponsors a $1 Million dollar for anyone who can demonstrate paranormal, supernatural, or some-level of a miracle under satisfactory observation.  They are the most legit with an application process and a tier level to weed out the frauds.

Related Articles

• How do you define ‘Miracles’? By Rob lundberg
• Are Miracles Real? By Craig S. Keener
• Modern Miracles: True or False?
• Miracles?
• Miracles for Sale  
• Can Miracles Happen?
• Scientific Skepticism
• Miracles, Evidence, and Skepticism
• Half a Billion Healings?
• Miracles for Sale
• The Shame of Non-Evidence

Scientific Prayer

Does Prayer Work?  That is the Scientific question.

There have been many studies over the last 65 years as pertaining to the effectiveness and verifiability of the assured applicability of prayer.  The majority of the studies have taken place under medical-academic settings.  Others have taken place in more unconventional ways.  In all fairness there are varying results when it comes to the effectiveness  and efficiency of prayer of does it actually work.  Some have prayer works, but only as a placebo effect and in not real healing.  Other have said it helps in areas of recovery. Studies on Prayer inconclusive:

• Studies on Intercessory Prayer
• 25 Intriguing Studies about Faith, Prayer, and Healing
• Testing Prayer: Can Science Prove the Healing Power of Prayer
• Did Prayer save 5-Year Old Hostage?

Without a doubt the most famous study of the scientific effectiveness of prayer was performed by Dr. Randolph Byrd, in which he completed a double blind study.  His famous study was done in 1986; Dr. Byrd then a medical a cardiologist in San Francisco divided into two groups all his patients (400 in total) that were taking up medical beds in the coronary care unit of San Francisco General Hospital.  He did his study over a period of ten months. Group One was assigned to a variety of prayer teams throughout the United States, who prayed for them each day. Group Two was not assigned any prayer team.  Each prayer team was given the first name of the patient and told that the patient was in the CCU. They were given no instructions as to how they were to pray, as long as they prayed for the patient once a day.  In summary Byrd determined the mortality rate in both groups was the same. Byrd concluded that prayer positively affected recovery, but not the death rate.

And again in 1999 a Dr. William S. Harris also attempted to replicate Byrd’s study and concluded that “supplementary, remote, blinded, intercessory prayer produced a measurable improvement in the medical outcomes of critically ill patients.”  As according to the findings of his study.

Theses are not the only studies that were done into proving the scientific effectiveness of prayer.  Here are the varying sources with different degrees of results verifying the effectiveness of prayer:

• Do Prayer Studies Work?
• Does God answer Prayer? YES
• The Proof that Prayer Works

However their are claims that in these studies used many used a Sharpshooter mentality, in that their results can be explained by chance and confirmation bias.  Psychiatrist Richard P. Sloan compared the Byrd and Harris studies with the sharpshooter fallacy, “searching through the data until a significant effect is found, then drawing the bull’s-eye.”  For example it is stated by critics of their of the Byrd and Harris study that they did not completely do the study in a controlled environment and that Harris’ study did not using an impartial measuring standard.

In Considering…”Both of these claims can be proven false by the 49 prayer studies during the past 52 years. Most studies use hospitals because there is nowhere greater place where prayers take place (other than a church, synagogue or mosque). Turns out that people of all faiths as well as atheists get healed the same. No one faith is healed greater than another. The atheists’ ‘hopes’ get answered just the same as a Christian’s/Jews/Muslims (pick any religion) ‘prayers’.” -(By Bruce Gleason, One Proof that there is no God)

However on the opposite end of the spectrum, there have been many medical & academic studies that come to the conclusion that prayer has no effect and is of no effect.  One study done by ambiguously the most recognized and prestigious Health group in the US, the Mayo Clinic in 2001 came to the conclusion after analyzing the major factors in health (death, cardiac arrest, re-hospitalization) that after 26 weeks concluded that “intercessory prayer had no significant effect on medical outcomes after hospitalization in a coronary care unit.“

But perhaps the most complete and recognized study on prayer was STEP, commonly referred to as the Templeton Foundation prayer study or the Great Prayer Experiment.  For this was by far the largest and most comprehensive study that was funded by a Christian group, but put on by Harvard Professor Herbert Benson who was a believer in the psychological benefits of spiritualism in the medical field.  The study came two conclusions:

1) “Intercessory prayer had no effect on recovery from surgery without complications.”

2) “Patients who knew they were receiving intercessory prayer fared worse.”

There are other Studies that show that Prayer is ineffective as well:

• Atheism 101: Can Prayer heal the sick?
• God is Imaginary: Statistically Analyze Prayer
• Why Won’t God Heal Amputees? Reviewing the Evidence about Prayer
• Study Concludes Intercessory Prayer doesn’t work
• Prayer: What does Science Say

Maybe the answer from a theological perspective is that God and prayer can’t be tested and measured.   But even with that mindset we also would have to concede that God and prayer can’t be verified.

The Shame of Non-Evidence

“The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe things without evidence.” -Thomas H. Huxley

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“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” -Christopher Hitchens

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“It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence.”  -William K. Clifford

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“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -Carl Sagan

 

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In Life…

Do whatever you WANT to do.

Do whatever you NEED to do.

Do whatever you HAVE to do.

                -But make sure you do all three.

God Loves You So Much...

Reblogged from Thinking out loud:

Read more… 5 more words

An Atheist Christian Marriage

Information on a mixed Christian-Atheist marriage from an atheist perspective is not always the easiest to find.  It seems whenever I look up information on this topic; all I can find is Christian sources and articles.  So I decided to do my own post with recommendations on the topic and include some related article links.

First and foremost the most important principle in any marriage is that you can only control your own actions. So the advice is from that perspective. So here are few tips:

1. You must first respect both your partner and their beliefs. This is especially important because some believers do not separate belief from personal identity & self. And in critiquing their beliefs you are in fact criticizing them. So don’t actively try to convert them. If you are, then you really are not respecting them.

2. Don’t be a jerk. By that I mean don’t mock their religious beliefs no matter how silly or absurd it may seem. Don’t be combative or push their religious buttons on purpose. It’s the mentality that if you are not trying to help solve the problem, then you are part of the problem. Keep fulfilling your duties as a husband, father, wife or mother. Just like any marriage it works the most smoothly when everyone is doing their job and fulfilling their duties. Don’t be a jerk, push buttons, be resentful, slack off or slack in your marital duties.

3. Try to find common ground.  Try to find something new in common that you can both talk about peaceably.  As obvious as this may sound, it is not always that easy. For example: The number one thing I had in common with my wife was our beliefs, now since that is gone. We can both definitely feel that there is this void in our relationship. And it shows up alot in our conversations.

4. Let your significant other know that they are significant. Let them know that you love them and committed to making this relationship and/or marriage work.  And don’t just let them know in words, but in action and deeds too.

5. And lastly give it time. It takes time and work for any marriage to work. And with the strain of religion and beliefs it will just take just more time and more work, so be prepared.

Related Articles

• Dear Positive Atheism
• An Atheist Christian Marriage Can Work
• Unequally yoked: Advice for the atheist in a theist relationship
• On Atheist Marriages, Soulless Soul mates: Can an atheist and a believer have a happy marriage? by Jesse Bering
• Atheist and Marriage by Austin Cline
• Mixed Marriages with Atheist & Theist by Austin Cline
• Overcoming an Unequal Yoke, A Guest post on this Blog
• Being in a Mixed marriage Christian-Atheist, and the Issues come up, and overcoming the issues of dogma, Another Guest Post on this Blog

Related Podcast & Videos:

• Dale McGowan: Mixed Marriages
• Can an Atheist and a believer relationship Work?
• Losing Your Religion – Keeping Your Spouse

Frederick Sparks: Why I am an Atheist?

I am an atheist because I have never seen any real evidence of any gods of any kind. Even as a child it bothered me that god did not act in obvious and public ways as depicted in the Bible. The liberal interpretation that the supernatural events in the Bible should be interpreted metaphorically only begged the question why the god entity shouldn’t be interpreted metaphorically as well.

-Frederick Sparks

Live everyday like you are Dying

“Live everyday like you are dying,”  were the words my co-worker adjacent to me said to me.  It initially caught me off guard and startled me, because I did not know how to react or digest it.

In Christianity, there is alot of comfort in death, there is alot of consolation in the idea that your loved ones are in a better place, and those morally deplorable and despicable ones are not.  However for the atheist, the idea of nothing is not always the most comforting thought for everyone.

And in facing this new reality and oncoming death,  What I have learned in my opinion that I should not fear what we are all expecting but I should be prepared to embrace it, cause like my coworker said, I should live everyday like I am dying, embracing every moment like it could be last, and every person, like it could be our last good-bye.  However coming from that mindset we must face the reality and the present of death as Sam Harris puts it.

As a former believer, living is not really living -it is preparing for your second life after death.  So as a Christian you/we might sometimes have a habit of talking and think alot about death, because there is alot of anticipation & anxiety surrounding death.   Because of this highly anticipated & expected gift in that in death we will receive a reward for our earthly servitude, eternal life in heaven.  Hence in that mindset there is a focus of anxiety surrounding the awaiting of death for the believer, (maybe that’s why it is talked and focused on so much in the church.)

The idea of living & dying emotionally changes when you are no longer a Christian.  When you are a Christian, you are living for the purpose and hopes of an afterlife or second life.  I tell my wife sometimes, “I’m no longer living for a second life, I’m living for this one.”  In that I am no longer in emotional suspense of death, but more fear never living

 ”Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.” -Bertolt Brecht, The Mother

Yet in this new mindset I find life much more precious and beautiful.  Our life is precious, because we give meaning to death by living.  In that I don’t fear dying, but not living.

 

Related Articles

• Grief Beyond Belief, How Atheist are dealing with Death
• Death
• Facing Death
• Grieving as an Atheist
• Our Legacy
• When You Lose Your Faith
• How do Atheist Face Death?
• Hello Death
• An Atheist Perspective on Death
• Sam Harris:  Existential Worries and Death
• Grief Beyond Belief
• Sympathy for the Heathen: 5 things to write a grieving atheist
• How Atheist Grieve Presented By National Public Radio (NPR) by way of the friendly atheist blog

The Voice Inside

By Bart S. Phillips

I once believed the voice inside my head was God.
I once believed the voice in me that said
That taking things that are not mine is wrong,
That hitting and hurting others is wrong,
That saying things which are not true is wrong—
That simple voice was God.

But the voice said many other things as well:
That torture and slavery are savagely wrong,
That subjugating women is inhumanly wrong,
That building gilded shrines and lavish temples
While children suffer and starve is heartlessly wrong.
What voice was this?

This voice inside my head also cried out
That punishing people for working on a “holy day”
Or for having sex with someone they love
Or for denying belief in unbelievable things—
These punishments are undeniably wrong.
Was this a different voice?

I once turned to that voice to decide my path,
To tell me what I should live for,
To tell me what I must oppose,
To tell me who to marry, where to live, what to do—
I tried to pledge myself entirely to that voice.
At that, the voice seemed suddenly silent.

So what is this voice inside my head
That speaks in the accent of my ancestors,
That encourages me when I struggle,
That chides me when I come up short,
That dares me to question and to reason,
That compels me to be better, to know more, to grow?

I once believed the voice inside my head was God,
But now I recognize that voice
As it enunciates my humanity,
That voice of intellect, of passion and compassion, of imagination—
That voice is no one else’s.
That voice is humbly, proudly, simply…me.

Understanding the Atheist Unbelief

I remember one of the minor stepping stones into me questioning my faith was the understanding of the burden of proof and the scientific method.  I did not understand that atheism was the ‘Lack of Belief’ in that it takes the default position.  I did not understand it is the negative position, in that it assumes nothing until proof is given.  And that there are many other schisms along the spectrum of belief, that I also did not understand. (I.E.: Theism, Agonisticsm, Deism).  These two videos below, were the two that really broke it down into laymens terms for me to understand.

Related Articles on the Various degrees and positions of Unbelief & Atheism

• 17 Kinds of Atheism 
• What Kind of Atheist are you?
• Meta Atheist Vs. Pop Atheist 
• No Religion? 7 Types of Non-Believers
• Types of Atheists
• The Ignosticism Position
• Defining the types of Theism
• 4 Kinds of Movement Atheist

Scriptural Reasoning

Go to Main Menu, Bonus topic for my series: Reasoning with Faith, Religion, and Atheism

Scriptural Reasoning (SR) is a growing academic field of study, because it is a relatively young philosophical field of thought.  In some academic circular it is also referred to as textual reasoning and in some Christian scholarly circles it is commonly referred to as Biblical Reasoning or Reasoning from the perspective of the Bible.  Scriptural Reasoning is a inter-religious dialogue of primarily the three major Abrahamic religions.  According to Scriptualreasong.org, “Scriptural Reasoning is a practice of inter-faith reading. Small groups of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and sometimes people of other faiths, gather to read short passages from their scriptures.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriptural_reasoning

Scriptural Reasoning is used as a tool for textual understanding in essential textual beliefs.  It is seen as not just a theological practice, but also an academic practice involving participants from highly regarded secondary institutes involving theologians, religious philosophers, and textual scholars.  It is designed as a method of  interfaith dialogue so that individuals and groups can seek a deeper understanding of theological and philosophical truths.  Unlike other forms of reasoning which are pure logical thought; scriptural reasoning is dependent upon the group atmosphere of exchanging theological ideas and principles.   It usually involves group participant meetings sometimes in mixed religious backgrounds (Muslim, Christian, Jew) or in mixed intra denomintal settings (Pentecostal, Baptist, Presbyterian).  It is done in this methodical fashion because it is about gaining deeper understanding & respect of different theological viewpoints all along the religious spectrum.

“Yet it is important to emphasize that theology should not seek to impose itself in other domains of knowledge, or even to displace other areas of thinking akin to itself.  Rather theology presents the case of the coherency of proposing a profound, abysmal reality as the creative environment for the actualities grasped as “data” or “differences” in the discrete areas of knowledge, disciplines and human experience. It tries to perceive a sacred density in and through the finite (Schleiermacher), weaving approaches to reality which other disciplines, epistemologically and methodologically speaking, are barred from undertaking.  Situating theology in a trans disciplinary plane implies that the particular understanding of theology as a discipline is constantly being modified by its interaction with other fields and areas of knowledge. In fact, this is what has happened during the last two centuries.” – Dr. Guillermo Hansen, Reasoning through Theology

To help promote SR, the Journal of Scriptural Reasoning has put together some general guidelines to help facilitate the meetings. 

Many in the academic/secular/philosophical community do not consider Scriptural Reasoning a true form of reasoning and logic thought.  Some don’t find it as practical as inductive or deductive reasoning.  However Scriptural Reasoning does truly display the mindset of how the theist works in that they assume certain presuppositions (i.e. the existence of God) about the text and dialogue about them for the purpose of discovering theological truths.  So even though Scriptural reasoning is considered a form of reasoning, it is very narrow view of reasonable thought.  And if it is not done in a good diverse group intra-faith denominations it can lead to group think.  To summarize it -Scriptural Reasoning is reasoning from the multiple religous perspectives of textual belief.

The Churchgoing Atheist Stops Going to Church

Reblogged from Belief in People:

Today is a big day for me. It finally happened.

Today is the Sunday of me not going to church anymore.

If you're new here, it will probably help to know that, although I've been an atheist since 2008, I've been attending church with my wife and kids since 2006. We go every Sunday with exceptions for illness, travel, or weekend house guests.

Read more… 1,220 more words

Three weeks ago, the wife and I were running Very late to church, so she suggested we go visit another church that was closer and I knew the pastor who was over it, because I use to attend church with him 6 years ago before he got his own church.  And I got so mentally distraught at the thought of going to visit his church, because he is extremely charismatic.  (Speaking in Tongues, Prophesying, Screaming, Shouting, Laying Hands on people.)  Just the thought of going into that environment got me sweating, heart-racing and unnerved.  

So as an unbelieving atheist going to church at times can very emotionally draining.

This past week when my wife and I were talking about which Church to visit for Easter.  (Because it has been part of our tradition for the last few years to go visit another church on Easter.)  I told her my feelings on going to church and how much times it had really stressed me out.  Just the thought of going to church on Sundays sometimes gets my nerves going, and my heart racing.  It really does affect my psychological and mental health at times.  Which is a far stretch from a year ago, when going to church on Wednesday and Sundays were a stress reliever for me and such a relaxing event.  But those days are no longer. So When I came across this post on the Belief in People Blog, it really warmed my spirits, because it was a post I could truly relate to, because ever since I have been on the outside of Christianity, I feel like an intruder/enemy to the all Christian Sunday club.

NASA Completes 52-Year Mission To Find and Locate God

WASHINGTON—After more than five decades of tireless work, brave exploration, and technological innovation aimed at a single objective, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration announced Wednesday that it had finally completed its mission to find and kill God.

NASA officials celebrate after finally locating and murdering the Supreme Being.

“I am ecstatic to tell you all today that we have beheld the awesome visage of the supreme architect of the cosmos, and we have murdered Him,” jubilant administrator Charles Bolden said after being drenched with champagne by other celebrating NASA employees. “There have been innumerable setbacks, missteps, and hardships over the past 50 years, but we always stayed true to our ultimate goal and we never gave up.”

“We finally got the son of a bitch!” Bolden continued. “He’s dead! God is dead!“

According to officials, God was killed this morning on the moon by a highly trained team of seven astronauts. He was reportedly lured into a trap after coming into contact with the Voyager 2 probe, which was transmitting a false message that NASA wanted to broker a truce with God on “neutral ground.”

Astronauts prepare the Creator’s body for its return to Earth.

“One of our lunar rovers captured an image of God at approximately 2100 hours last night, and we immediately launched a vessel manned by our best assassins,” said Richard Egan, Mission Control Chief at the Johnson Space Center in Houston. “After exiting the lunar lander, the astronauts approached God under the false pretense of peace, but He must have sensed something was amiss and fled. Our men gave chase in a moon buggy, finally overtaking Him in a crater where He was subdued after several minutes of violent hand-to-hand combat.”

Egan told reporters that it took as many as five highly trained astronauts to fully restrain the Supreme Being. He also confirmed that three of the astronauts sent to kill God were badly injured, but were expected to recover.

“He was damn fast. And strong—as strong as anyone I’ve ever engaged,” said Captain Trevor Sullivan, the astronaut who, after his weary team dragged a bloodied and beaten God back to the lunar module, executed Him with a single gunshot to the head. “He fought like a wild animal, and the fact that He’s omnipotent really worked against us. But we know a few tricks ourselves, and after all was said and done, we took Him down for good.”

“Gotta give Him credit, though, God was defiant right up until the end. Scrappy bastard spit right in my face just before I pulled the trigger,” added Sullivan, smiling.

NASA was founded in 1958 by President Dwight D. Eisenhower for the express purpose of locating and assassinating God. By 1969, it had completed a successful lunar landing, bringing mankind that much closer to neutralizing the Almighty. It was in that year that U.S. astronaut Neil Armstrong became the first to step on the moon, and uttered the legendary phrase, “Where are you, God, you fucking faggot? Come and get me!”

Over the years, officials told reporters, God had proved to be an elusive and formidable foe. In 1986, He destroyed the Challenger shuttle, killing all seven crew members, including Christa McAuliffe, a special operative who had been given orders to seduce and then strangle God with garrote wire. The Lord subsequently blew up the Columbia Destroyer Shuttle on reentry in 2003, and several times sabotaged the Hubble Space Telescope, a large piece of surveillance equipment launched into orbit in 1990 to monitor His activities.

“I can’t tell you how many times God gave us the slip,” NASA aerospace engineer David Williamson said. “We learned pretty quickly that you couldn’t underestimate Him, not for a second. He was an unbelievably intelligent and resourceful enemy, and if you made even the smallest mistake, you can bet He’d make you pay for it.”

Sullivan’s begrudging respect for God was echoed by many other NASA officials and employees. Though most have spent the majority of their adult lives working toward killing God, a certain reverence for the deceased deity pervaded NASA headquarters.

“It’s ironic that despite all of the technological advances and powerful weapons we’ve made, it was God’s trusting and compassionate nature that was His final undoing,” said Buzz Aldrin, a former astronaut who ripped out pages of the Bible on the moon’s surface in an effort to enrage God and draw Him out of hiding. “I mean, you’ve really got to hand it to Him. He gave us one hell of a fight.”

“I only wish it had been me personally who got to pull the trigger on that cocksucker,” Aldrin added.

*Happy April Fools Day………

 

Book Review: Letter to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris

It was only after reading a book review on the Finding Truth blog about this book did I decide to buy this book on amazon.  And I have to say I was pleasantly surprised by how much I enjoyed reading.  It is a very short and easy read with only about 92 pages.  But it is a very impactful and informational 92 pages.

 

 

Pros:
Really I loved everything about this book.  It’s somewhat hard to summarize the pros cause I liked everything about this book.  He starts with a heavy hitter; the weakness of the ten commandments.  And he ask, is it  possible that one could improve on the ten commandments.  And easily the answer is YES, because God could have said don’t rape, don’t enslave, don’t oppress or don’t abuse.  Then he goes onto that because of these lackluster commandments, it created a warped sense of morality within Christianity.  In that the “…effects of religion is to divorce morality from the reality of human and animal suffering.  Religion allows people to imagine that their concerns are moral when they are not-“(pg. 25) For example; victim-less crimes such as same-sex marriage and stem cell research.  In his book he breaks down the 10 Commandments to show how flawed they are and humanely inspired, but then gives the alternative of morality as it pertains to the well-being of people.

Another talking point that I found very interesting is how the bible miscalculated the mathematical constant Π(pi) to a ratio of 3:1.   (I Kings 7:23-26 and II Chronicles 4:2-5).  Which may seem not seem like a big deal, but several other civilizations prior to the bible, where to able to calculate it out exactly to a few decimal places.  (I.E. The Egyptians and the Babylonians)

Then he presents a very interesting perspective on the morality of abortion.

“It has been estimated that 50 percent of all human conceptions end in spontaneous abortion, usually without a woman even realizing that she was pregnant.  In fact, 20 percent of all recognized pregnancies end in miscarriage.  There is an obvious truth here that cries out for acknowledgment: if God exists, He is the most proliferic abortionist of all.”. (Pg. 38)

He doesn’t stop there, he then poses a theological challenge question to the pro-life Christian.  Considering that the fight over stem-cell research and abortion, is a fight for life and when life begins.  For the Christian life begins at conception with the newly fertilized embryo.  And that this embryo has a soul, and that this embryo can split into a set of twins forming two living beings with two distinct souls.  However there are cases when two embryos fuse together into one called a chimera.  And this is a common biological trait, where someone you know might be a chimera embryo.  So does this chimera embryo, have one or two souls?

Cons:
There is not much I didn’t like about this book. However there are a few things I could see where someone may not like this book.

1. That the book will probably never convince a fundamentalist or evangelical to reject their own religion. But it would make them reconsider some things.

2. Man of the arguments are several somewhat old arguments, but recycled and finely tuned with some statistics and impactful words.

3. Even though the book does address some issues in regards to liberal and moderate Christianity, it is really designed for the American evangelical body.

Final Thought:
All in all, I really enjoyed this book and would highly recommend it. For me it awakened me to the realization that morality doesn’t lye in the religious barriers of faith, but in our daily actions into how we treat each other.

In addition in one grand statement Harris summarized atheism elegantly. “Atheism is not a philosophy; it is nor even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious.” (Pg. 51)

*If you wish to listen to the audio version of this book, just follow the link.

An Interesting Fact

A while I back came across a post on the net about the top philanthropist/charitable givers of 2012.  It was a list of the top 50 generous charitable givers in the country (USA).  And what caught my eye on the list were the top two names.

1. Warren Buffett, Donated 3.1 Billion Dollars…….AGNOSTIC

2. Mark Zuckerberg, Donated 498.8 Million Dollars……ATHEIST

I just found it so interesting that the top two people in this country with a heart for giving are both non-believers and non-christians.

Does the God of the Bible measure up to his own Standard of Perfect?

The bible says we should judge a tree by the fruit that it bears, so for the sake of being biblically sound we will hold the biblical God to that same standard.  To determine if the God of the Bible is Perfect?  And if the God of the Bible is consistent to his own biblical and scriptural standards of perfection? 

First, we must start with defining what perfect means as according to the bible.

What does it mean to say God is perfect.

To say God is Perfect, is to say he is without flaw, without error, without mistake.  This is my definition of perfect.  However this post topic is NOT going to be based upon MY definition of perfect, but the biblical standard and definition of Perfect; and the bible does have its own standard of perfect.  Nonetheless, the one that is most applicable to this topic is the following scriptures which describe both the aspect of Perfection and Non-Perfect. 

Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.  (James 3:2)

 

A definition of Not Perfect and Unstable:                                                                         

The bible calls a double minded man unstable in all his ways. (James 1:8)  Therefore a double-minded man or unstable man lacks the capacity for perfection.   

 

POSITION #1: NO, God is not Perfect he fails by his own Biblical standards.

To say God is not perfect by the definition of not perfect, one would have to indeed persuade that the God of the bible is unstable and can be found with fault.  Then the question would also be is God double-minded and if he is, what is double-minded about?

In Genesis 6:6, after God had created Adam and Eve God admitted to making a mistake in creating Adam and Eve.  His exact words were that he was “…sorry that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart.”  If this is not an indicator of God having a change of heart about man and being double-minded.  I don’t know what is.

Secondly it says it blatantly in Exodus 21:14-”The Lord changed his mind(repented) and did not bring on his people the disaster he threatened.”  How can all perfect God change his mind?  Isn’t he supposed to immutable?

Now there are many cases of God changing his mind, and showing he grieved, relented, and repented.  Just click on the Skeptics Annoted link here to learn more about it. However, there is no need to go through all of them, just the two most blatant and obvious ones.

It even lacks on the practical and historical scene:

In regards to the East Valley Tribune headline from Friday, Aug. 31, 2012: ‘Rights come from God’: I’m happy that God changed his mind in 1920 and gave women the right to vote. I am certainly going to use my God-given right this year! I encourage all women to vote. Congress is wanting to take our rights away. If that happens, it could be another century plus before God changes his mind again.

 

POSITION #2: YES, God is still Perfect

The apologetic answer for this question and topic is simple for the majority of Christians   The bible says God is perfect, so if the bible says it I believe it.

 ”Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.”- Hebrews 13:8

He is perfect in all of his attributes, actions, and characteristics.  As obvious of an answer this is, it not entirely sufficient for those who are seeking a respectful answer to their reasonable faith and additionally this does not answer the skepticism of position #1.

Well to dig a little deeper, the Bible says God is the same today, tomorrow and forever.  So the only reasonable answer I could personally think of to be objective and to stay consistent in my skepticism; is the Calvinist answer.  That God never ever really changed his mind or acted in manner that would be considered a double standard.  He is sovereign and knew of the future outcome in every circumstance.  God is Perfectly Immutable and unchanging.

As one person put it:

Did God know Israel was going to do this?–Yes Did God know Moses was going to intercede when He told him what He could do?–Yes Why did God seemingly change His mind?– Testimony…To show Israel who God’s man was and to encourage Moses in his faith. The Moses of Ex 32:11-13 has alot more courage and faith then did the Moses of Ex 4:1-13

—MIchael

*The Christian Apologetic sight Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry (C.A.R.M.) has their own response to this.

As A.W. Pink put it, God is immutable is essence, attributes, and counsel.  He cannot change nor lie, so any misunderstanding of God immutable perfect actions is a product of our human capacity to fully grasp or see God’s true nature.  As the Prophet Malachi puts it in Chapter 3 Verse 6:

“I the Lord do Not Change.”

God’s Perfect Plan.

I actually stole this idea from TheoricalBS on YouTube.  (Disclaimer: So I do not claim Originality or Original Thought)  However, when I decided to talk to my wife and pastor on the things I found wrong with Christianity this is what I used to touch on what is wrong with God’s Perfect Divine Plan.

I find this to be one of the most troubling characteristic/attribute of the God of Judeo-Christianity.  It is hard to imagine and yet believe that Yahweh, an all-powerful, all-knowing, infinitely wise and most importantly a Perfect deity; that he be creator of such an unsound & fallacious plan.  I put mine in written form, so that they could read it in an e-mail.  My Version below.

God’s Divine Plan

To call oneself a Christian is to also to believe in God’s divine perfect plan, but if we were to really think about this plan.  We would notice several flaws.  How could we put our faith in not only a flawed plan, but a plan at times that does not make common sense?  Let’s take a look at God’s Plan:

Why A New Covenant if the First was Perfect? Is the Law of God Perfect?

This all together is a confusing topic to tackle, and somewhat difficult to explain or gather because of the way people/believers interpret the law and the bible.  So in talking about God’s law we will actually be talking more about his covenant.

What is a Covenant?  It is promise or oath before and with God that sets forth his law and promise.   Each Covenant is consider a law or a promise, and in each covenant God has a unique set of rules and laws.  This question also borders along the topic of covenant theology.

In laymen terms, God’s Covenant is broken into two sections.  The Old Covenant (Old Testament) and the New Covenant (New Testament).  Sometimes also known as the Covenant of Works (O.T.) and the Covenant of Grace (N.T.).  However biblically and theologically speaking there is more like 5 covenants.  The Biblical story goes as such; that God sent his son Jesus into the world to die for all sins, such that he could establish a new covenant for all eternity, because all of the previous covenants before hand lacked the full capability to forgive sins, get man back into right fellowship with God and save man from damnation.

So the question is, if God’s convental law is perfect, why would he need more than one?  If God’s law is Perfect, why made make 5 subsets of his law and call them covenants?

Is the Bible, God’s Perfect Word?

The Question begins with, Is God’s Word Perfect?,  Is the autobiographical text perfect?,  Is God original spoken word divinely perfect?…..Well the Christian or Christian Scholar would say Yes, Of Course.

“The Bible is inspired, but is it inerrant, that is without errors? The reason for a positive answer is simple: The Bible is the Word of God, and God cannot err; therefore, the Bible cannot err. To deny the inerrancy of the Bible one must either affirm that God can err or else that the Bible is not the Word of God.” (Norman Giesler )

“The theological basis of the belief of inerrancy, in its simplest form, is that as God is perfect, the Bible, as the word of God, must also be perfect, thus, free from error. Proponents of biblical inerrancy also teach that God used the “distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers” of scripture but that God’s inspiration guided them to flawlessly project his message through their own language and personality” (New World Encyclopedia)

To infer that the Bible is perfect, because it was inspired by a perfect deity is a very rational expectation, but questionable.  Even the bible asserts that God’s way & word is perfect in 2 Samuel 22:31 & Psalm 18:30.  However this is deeply questionable because after careful consideration, there are a number of alleged bible difficulites, that one would have deeply re-consider the notion of a Perfect God given Word,- The Bible.  And I have never seen all the discrepancies addressed by anyone.

So how could the bible be so perfect if it contains so many alleged discrepancies?

Christian Answer	Atheist Answer
“Yes, our Bible translations do have errors, let me tell you about them. But as you can see, less than 1% of them are meaningful and those errors don’t affect the major teachings of the Christian faith. In fact, there are 1000 times more manuscripts of the Bible than the most documented Greco-Roman historian by Suetonius. So, if we’re going to be skeptical about ancient books, we should be 1000 times more skeptical of the Greco-Roman histories. The Bible is, in fact, incredibly reliable.” -Johnathon Dodson	“For the only reason (I came to think) for God to inspire the bible would be so that his people would have his actual words; but if he really wanted people to have his actual words, surely he would have miraculously preserved those words, just as he had miraculously inspired them in the first place. Given the circumstance that he didn’t preserve the words, the conclusion seemed inescapable to me that he hadn’t gone to the trouble of inspiring them.” – Bart Ehrman
“The Bible cannot err, since it is God’s Word, and God cannot err. This does not mean there are no difficulties in the Bible. But the difficulties are not due to God’s perfect revelation, but to our imperfect understanding of it. The history of Bible criticism reveals that the Bible has no errors, but the critics do.” – Norman Giesler	“For my own part, my belief in the perfection of the Deity will not permit me to believe that a book so manifestly obscure, disorderly, and contradictory can be His work” – Thomas Paine
“We have to be careful to not affirm too much though. We believe that the Bible is inerrant, but this does not mean that the writers always practiced perfect Greek. It also doesn’t mean that they put all their facts in modern, advanced scientific terms. …They can paraphrase the Old Testament, and even Jesus. But none of these things affect our belief that the Bible represents the facts correctly. Just because a statement is imprecise does not make it false.” – Royce Theology Blog	“All Bibles are Man-Made.” -Thomas Edison

The Argument for and Against A Perfect Creator

I know this topic is overlapping with Intelligent Design and creationism, but I’ll try to focus primarily on the topic at hand.  A Perfect Creator????  And the attributes and character of a perfect creator?

Question #1.  Why would a Perfect being need to ever need to create anything?

The Christian Response/Answer

First of all, what logically prevents God from creating if He is perfect?  Perfection means that God is complete, without error, totally wise, and self-sufficient.  So, what in these qualities means God can’t create the universe?  This atheist says God would be susceptible to greed if He did so.  Really?  So now it is greedy for God to create a universe?  I have to ask, what justifies the atheist to assign such a sin to a holy God?  What does greed have to do with creating anything?  Why can’t God create for His own glory — which would be the greatest good for the most perfect being?  Why can’t God create people so He could love them?  After all, since God is love (1 John 4:8), love gives (John 3:16), and the greatest act of love is to die for another (John 15:13), then why can’t God create the universe and people in order to display the greatest act of love, by becoming one of us and dying for us as is the case with Jesus?

Of course, there are reasons that God has for creating that we just don’t know about.  This is certainly something this atheist should consider, and humility would necessitate confessing his ignorance.  This atheist might want to refrain from judging God, sit down, and consider the fact that there are things he won’t get about the Lord.  He risks a lot by raising a defiant fist to the infinitely powerful and holy Creator.  -C.A.R.M.

The Atheist Response/Answer
However the simple argument for a perfect god is somewhat perplexing.  Because the underlying question, how can perfect being have a need or a desire or a want?  I have heard on several occasions, that we were created so God could be worshiped and glory.  But what need or use does God need for worship if he is perfect?

Argument #1 against the Perfection of God

1. God is perfect. (premise)
2. God deliberately created the universe. (premise)
3. Perfection entails the lack of needs or wants. (premise)
4. Being perfect, God does not now nor ever has nor ever will have any needs or wants. (from 1, 3)
5. Deliberate creation entails an effort to satisfy some need or want. (premise)
6. Being a creator, God at one time had some need or want. (from 2, 5)
7. It is impossible to have some need or want and also to never have any need or want.
8. Conclusion: God, if it exists, is either not perfect or has not created anything.

“What did God do during that eternity before he created everything? If God was all that existed back then, what disturbed the eternal equilibrium and compelled him to create? Was he bored? Was he lonely? God is supposed to be perfect. If something is perfect, it is complete–it needs nothing else…There is nothing he needs, nothing he desires, and nothing he must or will do. A God who is perfect does nothing except exist.” -(Why the Christian God is Impossible By Chad Docterman)